Flash: Rebirth #1

[Mr Wallstreet]

Beat you to the punch Tragic :D

Oh and Review Pending

[wolf_2099]

Then you really didn't. I could have made this thread a week ago. First to actually post something about the issues wins!

[Stocky Boy]

Wally's such a german beach toweler. Thinks if he drops his towel on a chair it's as good as reserved. :D

[Mr Wallstreet]

It counts because I waited until the issue was released and I brought it before creating the thread. Anything less is just postwhoring.

But just to meet these ridiculous standards, Van Sciver's art is awesome as always. It's vibrant and crisp and the characters look like they're going to leap off the page at any moment. There you go, superficial and vague yet entirely related to the first issue.

:coolgleam:

[Mr Wallstreet]

Wally's such a german beach toweler. Thinks if he drops his towel on a chair it's as good as reserved. :D

True, but you cannot deny the effectiveness of it

:cool:

[wolf_2099]

Psh, you could have said that before the issue came out! Meaningless!

[Mr Wallstreet]

How long before we get a "Brave and the Bold" mini starring Jordan and Allen written by Johns? I remember Waid did one a long time ago...

[Tragic Angelus]

You know if I wanted, I could abuse my own power and do a review thread the CORRECT way, rather than the Wally way, but I'm to excited.

Van Sciver's art was phenominal as always. Made me want to do nothing more than re-read GL:Rebirth about halfway through the issue. And from here on, there be SPOILERS




Ok, so a few things. Bart is back from the future and his time with the various Legions, Superman, and Superman-Prime, all of which will wrap once Legion of 3 Worlds finishes. I think we all knew he'd come back to the present, but this does spoil it just a bit for those previously unaware. Glad to see him back though, and I was a bit surprised by his reluctance to accept Barry being back, until I realized he really was just upset that Max Mercury hasn't returned as well.

The beginning was interesting, though I'm not sure just who that person was, or will be now. Eager to find out!

I must comment on the Rogues: Mirror Master's line was hillarious to me, and you know that all of them are just worried and scared as shit at this point. Bad days for them are comming. Dr. Alchemy... what did he do to whom? I need to know this. That got me realllly interested in what will be set up out of that.

Hal Jordan and Barry Allen walking around the Flash Museum. I couldn't have thought of a better person to for Barry to be with first.

And the dead Black Flash in the field... That's definitely not a good sign, but I'm assuming out of the events on the last few pages, that (And here be the biggest SPOILER for those wanting to avoid it)


Barry may very well be the new Black Flash. He disintegrated the Flash villain Savitar after he suddenly emerged from Barry's chest. It seems Barry's a huge condiut to the Speed Force now, but his touch to a speedster there seemed to bring death. I'm sure it'll be 'fixed' by the end of the series, but for now that's some pretty amazing and fucked up shit. I hope to god he doens't hug Wally anytime soon.



Overall, I noticed one thing: Barry Allen came off as a total dick in this issue. Unlike most of the other heroes who return from the dead, Barry was more angry that he did. He said he wasn't in the Speed Force, but that he WAS the Speed Force, that he was just a part of it without his humanity, and he saw so many things go by (Maybe how Savitar came out of him?) But when Hal wanted to talk to him and catch up and celebrate his coming back, Barry instead shunned him, talked down to him and told him he wasn't going to see anyone and instead was going to constantly go from one thing to the next becaue he can't be late anymore.

It seems like Barry didn't want to be back, and is almost ready to continue not being here if he can. I was a bit surprised at his attitude, because it's a total 180 from the normal Barry, but I'll roll with it for now. He's in Johns' hands, so I'll trust it.

And yes, once again, Thank God for Geoff Johns.

[MGM]

Boring. Can someone wake me when DC's finally gotten around to NOT turn their DCU back into John's childhood memory?

[Tragic Angelus]

Because Marvel's doing something SOOO much more exciting :rolleyes:

[IrishCream]

Yeah, Marvel's just shaking up their universe constantly while DC keeps going back to ma and apple pie.

[wolf_2099]

Yeah, Marvel's just shaking up their universe constantly while DC keeps going back to ma and apple pie.

Does this strike anyone else as hilarious?

Sure, marvel killed mutants, introduced the registration act, and has osbourne in office, but how long do they expect it to last for?
Eventually they all go back to the status quo.

[Tragic Angelus]

DC had Luthor in Office, killed an entire city, killed an entire nation of people, and yet at the same time brings back older characters and older plots, even when they're still doing new things.

Personally to me DC actually has a plan that reaches to every corner of their line where Marvel has it for main books, but then the seperate universes like the X-books and Spider-books never really do anything in those ramifications.

Also, more of their books are just total shit.

[IrishCream]

But has it happened yet? No. Its not like Wolverine lost his memory again, and I highly doubt millions of mutants are popping up again, plus Norman Osborn isn't supposed to be in charge for good like Tony Stark wasn't, etc. But I'm sure in 3 years things can change.

The point is, DC had made a change and there was no reason to go back. Wally West has been around for a long ass time, who was begging for Barry to come back? Honestly, I couldn't tell you the difference in their personalities. I'll give them the fact that at least people wanted Hal back (even though I thought Kyle was a far better character). Its annoying because it goes against what DC heroes are supposed to be about, which is legacy. Marvel doesn't really have that because no one takes over for other heroes (for the most part). Which is fine because that isn't their M.O.

I dunno, it just feels like going backwards instead of forward.

[IrishCream]

Personally to me DC actually has a plan that reaches to every corner of their line where Marvel has it for main books, but then the seperate universes like the X-books and Spider-books never really do anything in those ramifications.

Yeah, the X-Men books definitely ignored the ending for the House of M. The Messiah Complex was about a bake sale. Or the hunt for the first born mutant since that event, who knows. And they didn't totally uproot and move their base of operations because of all the attacks during that event. Wolverine has also been completely ignoring his new found memories in a shitty series written by Daniel Way.

And Spider-Man hasn't been hunted by the cops or the Thunderbolts since the registration act. Or the Avengers aren't underground because they aren't legally allowed to operate any more. And a group of villains hand picked by Osborn aren't posing as pre-existing heroes to form a new Avengers group thanks to Secret Invasion. Captain America is also still Steve Rogers and wasn't assassinated due to the events of Civil War.

Common man. You don't have to like what Marvel's doing, but at least they do have ramifications. DC is on their 10th Crisis and all I've really seen is the return of Barry and Batman drawing on cave walls (I'm actually not dissing the Batman change...I think its pretty cool. They're also not pretending he's dead for good). I'm sure I'm missing some things, but whatever. The reason people fondly remembered Barry was for his sacrifice, and they took that away.

/end rant

[Tragic Angelus]

You're missing what I said about Marvel. There are ramifications yes, but unlike DC, they don't tend to span the company line. What X-Men ramifications were there post Secret Invasion? post Civil War?

Spider-Man's went backwards after Civil War in an apparently 'DC' manner because they wanted Parker unmarried, just like the apparent wanting of Hal or Barry back.

Secret Invasion fallout is seemingly happening in the Avengers books for the most part, to which I attribute Thundebolts as well as it has been interlinked with Avengers since it started.

yes, Wolverine has his memories do to House of M, and there are almost no more mutants. But again, that 'company event' was almost entirely X-Men related. How did it affect things elsewhere?

Both companies have their ramifications, but to me Marvel's just constantly trying to 'reinvent' their status quo before the last shakeup even really has time to fully spread out. Sure we love events and what they mean, but oversaturation and no time for the ones we really like to take effect, and half the time they don't seem to build off the last one either.

This arguement pops up every other month or so. We all have our preferences, and sadly the one thing I constantly here about DC is that they're 'going back to how it was before' But it's not like Kyle isn't a GL anymore, or Wally won't be a speedster either. So what if both are Green Lanterns and both are Flashes? DC isn't going back, they're going forward with new ideas and new places, but along the way they're simply bringing older characters back into the lineup.

Most of the peole who don't care about Barry or Hal coming back are the ones who grew up with their predecessors in the suits. Me? I grew up on Wally and love him as the Flash. But Barry coming back is a big deal to a lot, and something that I know will be delivered at the best of it's ability and some of the best and biggest quality it could be. Barry's return promises quality storytelling, just as Hal's did with Rebirth, Sinestro Corps War, and into Blackest Night. So I'm not anti-retro or what have you because I know people are going to do their best to take these characters and stories seriously, and deliver the best thing they can to everyone who has been either waiting 20 years, or simply interested because they read about it or were current Flash fans. That to me is what DC's 'going back'/retro movement means to me.

[wolf_2099]

Yeah, the X-Men books definitely ignored the ending for the House of M. The Messiah Complex was about a bake sale. Or the hunt for the first born mutant since that event, who knows. And they didn't totally uproot and move their base of operations because of all the attacks during that event. Wolverine has also been completely ignoring his new found memories in a shitty series written by Daniel Way.
/end rant

Just for clarity, I realize a lot of this is sarcasm.
Are you, or are you not saying the series by Daniel Way is shitty?
'Cause it is, it is shitty.

[IrishCream]

I'm just saying that I really don't see much of a difference between Wally and Barry personality-wise, which is why I don't agree with Barry's return. Seems kinda pointless, IMO. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it. At least Hal and Kyle were vastly different characters.

And Wolverine Origins is a shitty comic

[Mr Wallstreet]

Read the first issue, and I thought it was okay. There were a few interesting things that happened but nothing that made me sit up and take notice.

We had our obligatory mystery in the begining; the connection to the Flash is interesting as well as the dead Flash in the corn field. Yes Barry was being a dick to Hal and was giving Keystone city the finger by not attending the parades but the guy just came back from the dead so he's allowed to throw a fit.

Overall it was an okay issue but it didn't have the same impact as GL: Rebirth (and maybe thats an unfair comparison) but I was expecting just a lil bit more.

Having not followed every single tie-in for FC I am a little confused on how Bart came back. Last I heard Bart was killed by the Rogues. Can someone let how/why/when he came back?

[Tragic Angelus]

1. Bart has recently returned in Legion of 3 Worlds #3. Turns out when the Legion teamed up with the Justice League of America and the Justice Society of America just a few years ago, and Bart died and Wally came back, it was actually Bart that they took into the Lightning Rod back to the future. There, all three Brainiacs brought Bart back to combat Superboy-Prime. We're still waiting on the final 2 issues of the series, as 3 ended with a splash page of Bart running towards the reader. They picked him because the only thing that scares Prime are Flashes since they trapped him in the Speed Force.

2. Barry being a dick just comes completely un-characteristic of him to me, based on the stories I've read with him in it. He always seemed more like a guy who'd be looking out for everyone else rather than himself which is how he came out this way.

3. The reason I really liked the dead Flash in the cornfield is because it looks like the Black Flash/Death Flash, who supposedly is the last thing that all the Flashes see just before they die, and who is apparently chasing them all down to kill them. Like their version of 'Death' basically. Again, Barry doing what he did at the end is why I'm shooting in the dark on him becoming the new one, if that is indeed the old one.

[Mr Wallstreet]

Much appreciated Tragic. The way I interpreted Barry's attitude was that he wasn't looking out for himself but rather he just didn't want to be here at all let alone have to deal with everyone fussing over him.

Currently Barry says he was part of the Speed Force for all those years he was missing, but other writers have said, and depicted him, as being in "heaven" so maybe he's feeling angry at having been taken away from that. The man paid his dues, died a hero's death and then went to his reward secure in the knowledge that there were several other close friends and family currently filling his shoes. To be yanked away from that would and being brought back does seem redundant and would understandably leave him sour.

As for the other debate raging on who is more progressive Marvel or DC; they're both in the same boat, they're just taking different routes. DC brought back Hal and Barry and had 3 Crises (sp) but Marvel is no better. Marvel brought back Bucky after being for almost the same amount of time. I've lost count of how many times Xavier regained, then lost his ability to walk. same with Magneto. He lost his powers in HoM but just got them back. I've lost count of how many times Jeans come back from the dead. And now Cable is playing the role of the saviour (again).

Joe Q was touting how unmasking Spider-man would have far reaching ramifications within the entire MU. All that happened was that someone busted a cap in Aunt May's ass which was just an excuse to flip the switch on the last 25+ years of Peter's history.

[Tragic Angelus]

Barry's attitude is definitely something to keep an eye on, and I agree about the heaven aspect. I'm fairly certain there have been many takes on just where Barry's been since he died, whether it's now Part of the Speed Force, IN the Speed Force, Heaven, etc, they've all been used. And the interesting thing to note is that Barry knew he would die (through modern storytelling) because of his time spent in the future, and knowing about his actions and what would go on. When he came back to help out Wally each time, he knew he wasn't around then to help him because of that, so that knowledge seems to fit in with the "I was at peace and now I'm back" aspect.

Either way, I'm along for the ride and can't wait to see where it goes.

[wolf_2099]

Who the fuck is Barry Allen?

[Mr Wallstreet]

The 4th Summers brother

[wolf_2099]

Oh! Okay! That explains it all.
Does he team up with Vulcan?

[wolf_2099]

Wait. If Barry Allen is the 4th Summers brother, why is this in the DC forum? And how is the a Marvel X-men character named after a DC character? Isn't that copyright infringement?

[Mr Wallstreet]

He teams up with Vulcan AND Daken!

[Mr Wallstreet]

Wait. If Barry Allen is the 4th Summers brother, why is this in the DC forum? And how is the a Marvel X-men character named after a DC character? Isn't that copyright infringement?

No?

[wolf_2099]

SWEET! I'll buy that for sure, chances are Wolverine will be in it!

No?

Okay, just wanted to check.

[Mr Wallstreet]

Wolverine is already in it. He's in the background of every panel on every page. And when this story concludes, Wolverine will join the JLA taking Batman's spot.

[wolf_2099]

So I take it Batman didn't get prep time?

[JediMindTrick]

Tragic, about what you said about Barry being not that excited about returning, I'd hafta disagree with you. I can definitely see his reluctance/confusion to be back, to the point of all most being pissed off about it. Like he returned, but he has no idea why, or was is just dumb luck? I think it's more realistic that way. Sure you'd be happy to be alive, but to have no idea why you're here, I can see how that would seriously mess with you head.